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Firstly, no, I don't think "any other" business would act in an unlawful way. A minority would.
Secondly, this is not unethical conduct, it is unlawful.
The fact that some people might act in a certain way does not mean that so acting isn't horrible. And that's where this started, with you saying it didn't make him a horrible person.
I bet the people who endured the years of noise despite planning restrictions and enforcement notices think that it was horrible. I think most people would agree.
So is somebody who acts horribly, not on a one off occasion, but over a prolonged period a horrible person?
Chairmans reply to Consortium
Being unlawful is still being unethical... I just don't want to use the term illegal as although it's against the law, I wouldn't call anyone a criminal here. Was it Tamplin making this noise or was it all of his employees? I'm willing to bet that he wasn't even in the building at these hours. But again veering off topic again.Alan wrote:Firstly, no, I don't think "any other" business would act in an unlawful way. A minority would.
Secondly, this is not unethical conduct, it is unlawful.
The fact that some people might act in a certain way does not mean that so acting isn't horrible. And that's where this started, with you saying it didn't make him a horrible person.
I bet the people who endured the years of noise despite planning restrictions and enforcement notices think that it was horrible. I think most people would agree.
So is somebody who acts horribly, not on a one off occasion, but over a prolonged period a horrible person?
Horrible people don't do what he does for charity in my opinion. But I don't care whether he's horrible or not, I care about what he wants to do with the club.You haven't answered my original question. Does this prove him to be unfit to run a club?
Unethical and unlawful are quite different things. Some unlawful things might be ethical - speeding to take an injured person to hospital, for example.
As to whether he's fit to run the club, I wouldn't make a decision based solely on this, nor have I said anywhere that I would.
I'm not pro either camp. I think the rival consortium need to come up with a lot more money if they want to be taken seriously.
As to whether he's fit to run the club, I wouldn't make a decision based solely on this, nor have I said anywhere that I would.
I'm not pro either camp. I think the rival consortium need to come up with a lot more money if they want to be taken seriously.
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Auntie Merge
- Posts: 2225
- Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:43 pm
I been a senior manager in a number of businesses. I have advised others on a consultancy basis. I run my own business. All of these businesses have been ethical; that has been one of the main priorities of a successful business in the 21sy century - to be profitable whilst ticking all the boxes on CSR.NBDag wrote:Ok so you would do differently. I can understand that once being affected by something similar before. I'd put a lot of money though on you being a rarity. But the other part of the question you didn't answer- would you expect any other business to act differently? If you're answer is yes btw, you're being naïve about how nice businesses are.
My whole point is that AGP probably haven't done anything that any other business wouldn't do in that position. Ultimately businesses are run for profit and to get to the top most of them can't afford to stop and think about a baby trying to sleep at night. So with things like this it's best to remember this saying- Don't hate the player. Hate the game.
Dagenham and Redbrifge FC is a community based club, our community and social responsibilities are very important to us. I do not believe that someone who shows so little regard to the neighbours surrounding his business ( and as to another comment; a one-off complaint might have been employees acting on their own; a two year complaint can only come from the top down) should have overall control of our club, if anything at all. Looking at how he had run his businesses, his business ethics appear contrary to the very ethos of the Daggers and he should have no involvement whatsoever.
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dagger4eva
- Posts: 1735
- Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:39 pm
Like I said, all this utter bullshit about this factory is really detracting away from the real issue in hand.... like massively!!
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SUSSEX DAGGER
- Posts: 2619
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:47 am
Club does not need investment it is all misleading to get Tamplin in the door. Prostest do what we need to do, force them out. Ask for a vote via members to decide if Thommo and Bennett who claimed form the outset we are fine financially sound and now all of a sudden liquidation beckons, if this is the case they are not fit to run the business.[/quote]
What a complete load of bullshit , in fact the Club is further away from liquidation then it has ever been.
Look at the facts in the worse case scenario . The Club for one reason or another is looking for investment. After repeatedly reading the Chairmans response I cant see any reference to the Club being anywhere near liquidation. In fact it could be argued that the Club has never been further from that dire situation.
Thats not to say there is not a time bomb ticking and staying as we are is not an option because what is clear is that The Club has more outgoings then incomings. If this continues then the Members and The current Board could lose all power let alone 80% as the first call will be The Club going into administration.
Time for certain People to get real I am afraid because let me assure you if the Club does have to call in the administrators there will be no sentiment shown to anybody , the duty of the administrator is to get the best deal for the creditors and they wont give a tinkers curse that somebody once upset their neighbours when that certain Person steps forward.
At the moment it seems we have stalemate and look no nearer getting the investment that is obviously neede,d so the Club has two options as far as I see either drastically cut the budget or carry on as we are.
If they cut the budget the Club is more likely to drop further down the pyramid then where they are currently situated. When this happens there will be howls of anguish and Supporters will call for the head of the current Board and we will be back to squre one. To rescue the situation will still need investment and you can bet your last fiver that that when the plummet starts the majority People will not care one bit where the money comes from if it arrests the decline.
The other option of carrying on as we are hopeing for a gem to be sold or a good Cup run to balance the books is filled with risk and is the one that a certain Person like any any Person with business acuemen would no doubt relish . When the Cup run does not occur or a Player can not be sold the Club just goes further into the red and is then prime for a takeover. If the Members and their Represntatives i.e The Board lose control by having to call in the administrators then things really do get favourable for People who have expressed an interest in buying into The Club.
My understanding is that The Administrator has a legal duty to the Creditors to find the best deal and the feekings of anbody else will not come into it. Now if this was to happen then I doubt there will be People queing down Victoria Road ready to bail the Club out.
Now lets put these facts into realistic situation , the administrators are called in when the Club is down the toilet for a tune of a million quid ,a hypertheical figure but one I would think that if reached would require such action.
When the administrator seeks a buyer he gets two offers ,one of them is from the Consortium who can raise no more then the 250k they are currently appearing to Offer. That means the administrator can offer 25p for every pound owed to the creditors, maybe less because administrators charge hevty fees for their services.
However Mr Tamplin has already offered 4 times that amount so it resonable to assume that he will be prepared top that by offering 26p in the pound for every pound owed to creditors.
Their can be no doubt most Creditors would accept that rather then receive nothing , which is exactly what all they would get if the Club was liquidated .
Now if he offered 50p in the pound for every one owed he would get complete control for £500,000 a figure far less then he is currently offering . At this Juncture The Members and Supporters will have no say and I have no doubt The Administrator would snap Mr Taplin arm off and how ever much it hurts he will not give a moments thought to the feelings of Supporters. his only duty is to the creditors.
Lets not forget Portsmouth Supporters got control of their Club and paid less then 20p in the Pound to all those they owed money to.
Appears to me that The Members face an impossiable situation , there is no dressinhg up the fact that the best offer by a Country mile is Mr Taplin, a fact that can not be hidden however unpopoular he is. The other bid simply to me is like moving deck chairs round the Titanic and if progressed with will mean that drastic cuts will have to be made in the long term. That might appease some People but when the slide occurs then they will come under increase pressure from fans demanding things they cant deliver.
If it was my decision then I would accept that the best days are over , I will also have to accept if the Club is to remain viable then we are only heading one way. At least The Club remained in the right hands.
So looking at things liquidation is most unlikely because there is already People ready to invest at a much higher price then what they could end up getting it for should the worse happen.
Whatever happens and neither option feel me with joy these are very worrying times for our beloved Club
What a complete load of bullshit , in fact the Club is further away from liquidation then it has ever been.
Look at the facts in the worse case scenario . The Club for one reason or another is looking for investment. After repeatedly reading the Chairmans response I cant see any reference to the Club being anywhere near liquidation. In fact it could be argued that the Club has never been further from that dire situation.
Thats not to say there is not a time bomb ticking and staying as we are is not an option because what is clear is that The Club has more outgoings then incomings. If this continues then the Members and The current Board could lose all power let alone 80% as the first call will be The Club going into administration.
Time for certain People to get real I am afraid because let me assure you if the Club does have to call in the administrators there will be no sentiment shown to anybody , the duty of the administrator is to get the best deal for the creditors and they wont give a tinkers curse that somebody once upset their neighbours when that certain Person steps forward.
At the moment it seems we have stalemate and look no nearer getting the investment that is obviously neede,d so the Club has two options as far as I see either drastically cut the budget or carry on as we are.
If they cut the budget the Club is more likely to drop further down the pyramid then where they are currently situated. When this happens there will be howls of anguish and Supporters will call for the head of the current Board and we will be back to squre one. To rescue the situation will still need investment and you can bet your last fiver that that when the plummet starts the majority People will not care one bit where the money comes from if it arrests the decline.
The other option of carrying on as we are hopeing for a gem to be sold or a good Cup run to balance the books is filled with risk and is the one that a certain Person like any any Person with business acuemen would no doubt relish . When the Cup run does not occur or a Player can not be sold the Club just goes further into the red and is then prime for a takeover. If the Members and their Represntatives i.e The Board lose control by having to call in the administrators then things really do get favourable for People who have expressed an interest in buying into The Club.
My understanding is that The Administrator has a legal duty to the Creditors to find the best deal and the feekings of anbody else will not come into it. Now if this was to happen then I doubt there will be People queing down Victoria Road ready to bail the Club out.
Now lets put these facts into realistic situation , the administrators are called in when the Club is down the toilet for a tune of a million quid ,a hypertheical figure but one I would think that if reached would require such action.
When the administrator seeks a buyer he gets two offers ,one of them is from the Consortium who can raise no more then the 250k they are currently appearing to Offer. That means the administrator can offer 25p for every pound owed to the creditors, maybe less because administrators charge hevty fees for their services.
However Mr Tamplin has already offered 4 times that amount so it resonable to assume that he will be prepared top that by offering 26p in the pound for every pound owed to creditors.
Their can be no doubt most Creditors would accept that rather then receive nothing , which is exactly what all they would get if the Club was liquidated .
Now if he offered 50p in the pound for every one owed he would get complete control for £500,000 a figure far less then he is currently offering . At this Juncture The Members and Supporters will have no say and I have no doubt The Administrator would snap Mr Taplin arm off and how ever much it hurts he will not give a moments thought to the feelings of Supporters. his only duty is to the creditors.
Lets not forget Portsmouth Supporters got control of their Club and paid less then 20p in the Pound to all those they owed money to.
Appears to me that The Members face an impossiable situation , there is no dressinhg up the fact that the best offer by a Country mile is Mr Taplin, a fact that can not be hidden however unpopoular he is. The other bid simply to me is like moving deck chairs round the Titanic and if progressed with will mean that drastic cuts will have to be made in the long term. That might appease some People but when the slide occurs then they will come under increase pressure from fans demanding things they cant deliver.
If it was my decision then I would accept that the best days are over , I will also have to accept if the Club is to remain viable then we are only heading one way. At least The Club remained in the right hands.
So looking at things liquidation is most unlikely because there is already People ready to invest at a much higher price then what they could end up getting it for should the worse happen.
Whatever happens and neither option feel me with joy these are very worrying times for our beloved Club
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mickeyblue
- Posts: 707
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:29 pm
Now that Mr Sussex is lost of the year
but we finished 9th!
It's simple really. Our Outgoings exceed our income, so we have to cut them or increase the regular income. A short term investment just delays this by a few years.
The problem we have is that the commercial department haven't been able to market the club to increase income, be that through increased gates, events or whatever.
The daggers bar downstairs is a shithole and is competing with the Pipe Major - actually, it's not competing. Who in their right mind would pop in to the club for a beer on a non match day when many of our supporters won't even go on a match day?
The problem we have is that the commercial department haven't been able to market the club to increase income, be that through increased gates, events or whatever.
The daggers bar downstairs is a shithole and is competing with the Pipe Major - actually, it's not competing. Who in their right mind would pop in to the club for a beer on a non match day when many of our supporters won't even go on a match day?
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Mike the Dagger
- Posts: 2307
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:09 am
- Contact:
What Alan said!
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Reg Varneys wife
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:26 am
I agree, there is nothing inviting in the downstairs bar, it needs a complete refurb and some decent Real Ale, not the rubbish they keep buying because it is the cheapest they can purchase with the most profit.Alan wrote:It's simple really. Our Outgoings exceed our income, so we have to cut them or increase the regular income. A short term investment just delays this by a few years.
The problem we have is that the commercial department haven't been able to market the club to increase income, be that through increased gates, events or whatever.
The daggers bar downstairs is a shithole and is competing with the Pipe Major - actually, it's not competing. Who in their right mind would pop in to the club for a beer on a non match day when many of our supporters won't even go on a match day?
I live locally, but it would never enter my head to go and have a pint down the club, because I like a nice pint and some nice surroundings, like most people.
Get your act together Thommo, listen to the punters for a change.
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SUSSEX DAGGER
- Posts: 2619
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:47 am
Don't know enough about it to be honest , don't think I have ever made a starement that would indicate that I am anti anything.
Would prefer to stay as we are but that is fast becoming not an option. Until I am in receipt of all the facts I don't know what side of the fence I am on.
The point I was trying to make was that if things are as bad as some our claiming it won't be long before things are taken out of both directors and Members hands.
The only thing I know is that Supporters have been kept in the dark for far to long over this issue and The Board need to hold a Forum of some sort at the earliest Opportunity to give the Supporters a voice.
This is now following us up and down the Country and The Board really should get a grip on the situation and cone out and explain the true financial posistion of the Club at this current time.
No bullshit, no half truths the hard facts .
Would prefer to stay as we are but that is fast becoming not an option. Until I am in receipt of all the facts I don't know what side of the fence I am on.
The point I was trying to make was that if things are as bad as some our claiming it won't be long before things are taken out of both directors and Members hands.
The only thing I know is that Supporters have been kept in the dark for far to long over this issue and The Board need to hold a Forum of some sort at the earliest Opportunity to give the Supporters a voice.
This is now following us up and down the Country and The Board really should get a grip on the situation and cone out and explain the true financial posistion of the Club at this current time.
No bullshit, no half truths the hard facts .
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Mike the Dagger
- Posts: 2307
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:09 am
- Contact:
The key here is do we need money in and if so, when?
From what i know, I believe the answer is yes eventually, unless we go back up this season or next when the hole in the club finances is filled by the extra income in the FL.
Do we need it right now? Maybe not, but then we are unlikely to go up this season or next without it.
It's pretty much a perfect Catch 22. Sell out, get money in, possibly go up, don't need the money any more. Stay as we are, almost certainly don't go up, and then need money to survive.
I think we've gone soft commercially from 9 years in the FL... extra income, extra away support, taken our eye off the ball on other income etc. It's easy money, they send a cheque with your share of football's crock of gold. Now we don't have that suddenly it's an issue down the line.
Given it was always likely we would go down at some point and that the major reason for that happening last season is the rediculous faith shown in the previous manager by the board, the same people that have taken their eye off the commercial ball, then they need to look at themselves. The club needs a total shake up.
From what i know, I believe the answer is yes eventually, unless we go back up this season or next when the hole in the club finances is filled by the extra income in the FL.
Do we need it right now? Maybe not, but then we are unlikely to go up this season or next without it.
It's pretty much a perfect Catch 22. Sell out, get money in, possibly go up, don't need the money any more. Stay as we are, almost certainly don't go up, and then need money to survive.
I think we've gone soft commercially from 9 years in the FL... extra income, extra away support, taken our eye off the ball on other income etc. It's easy money, they send a cheque with your share of football's crock of gold. Now we don't have that suddenly it's an issue down the line.
Given it was always likely we would go down at some point and that the major reason for that happening last season is the rediculous faith shown in the previous manager by the board, the same people that have taken their eye off the commercial ball, then they need to look at themselves. The club needs a total shake up.
Yeah the club needs a total shake up but when someone dares offer to bail us out you all protest. What you mean is have a total shake up but don't change anything at all. A lot of people got there wish last season and we returned to the conference, got stilly back and everyone's having a wank cos bennos back. Maybe we'll get arbs back as centre half and Dave hogan can go in goal. The serious point here is shake ups and change will never be welcome here. There will always be 30 or 40 out with their a4 bits of paper. I say take the best financial offer on the table and let's get back to watching the football.
Bollix to Shampoo, it's real poo we want !