Conference club...

[dagger4eva]

Following a point made in an earlier thread about us being a "conference club back to our natural level" thought id just tally up how many seasons we've spent, and where, to back it up....

Isthmian Premier - 4 seasons (consecutive)

Football League - 8 seasons (consecutive)

Conference - 10 seasons (over two spells 3 & 7)

Dont really know what you can take from that, if anything, but I guess the hypothesis that this club has absolutely no right at all to be in the football league is a load of nonsense given we spent the longest ever consecutive period in the clubs history with said status.
The fact our shit heap of a squad werent good enough this particular season shouldnt detract from that.

[Mike the Dagger]

Following a point made in an earlier thread about us being a "conference club back to our natural level" thought id just tally up how many seasons we've spent, and where, to back it up....

Isthmian Premier - 4 seasons (consecutive)

Football League - 8 seasons (consecutive)

Conference - 10 seasons (over two spells 3 & 7)

Dont really know what you can take from that, if anything, but I guess the hypothesis that this club has absolutely no right at all to be in the football league is a load of nonsense given we spent the longest ever consecutive period in the clubs history with said status.
The fact our shit heap of a squad werent good enough this particular season shouldnt detract from that.

If we are playing that game then actually surely you should split the 9 FL seasons into League One and Two?

Isthmian Premier - 4 seasons (consecutive)

Football League Two - 8 seasons (over two spells, 3 & 5)

Football League One - 1 season

Conference - 11 seasons (over two spells 4 & 7)

At the end of the day I believe a club's "natural level" is based off the size of its core support. Based on this I think we are around a top third Conference side.

[NBDag]

Unless the team's "core support" actually get on the pitch and start scoring goals, they don't actually determine what league the team should be in.

We're in the Conference next year because we didn't play like a league 2 team this year. We didn't get relegated because The FA saw us and thought "Bloody hell they can't be in League 2, it defies nature! They don't have enough fans". It's not that difficult to understand really.

[Mike the Dagger]

Unless the team's "core support" actually get on the pitch and start scoring goals, they don't actually determine what league the team should be in.

We're in the Conference next year because we didn't play like a league 2 team this year. We didn't get relegated because The FA saw us and thought "Bloody hell they can't be in League 2, it defies nature! They don't have enough fans". It's not that difficult to understand really.

Sigh.

From 2010: http://www.fansfocus.net/dagenhamandred ... id=8324607

[NBDag]

Unless the team's "core support" actually get on the pitch and start scoring goals, they don't actually determine what league the team should be in.

We're in the Conference next year because we didn't play like a league 2 team this year. We didn't get relegated because The FA saw us and thought "Bloody hell they can't be in League 2, it defies nature! They don't have enough fans". It's not that difficult to understand really.

Sigh.

From 2010: http://www.fansfocus.net/dagenhamandred ... id=8324607

No! He's only gone and pulled out Fansfocus.net- number one website for all facts! How can anyone disagree with such a reputable website? Stop the arguments now!

Being big is irrelevant. It's being good that counts. Leicester aren't as big as United, but they' are and should be champions of England because they played the best football in England and United are not going to be champions because they didn't.

Bournemouth aren't bigger than Villa. But they should be a premier league club because they played well enough and villa shouldn't be because they didn't.

We were a football league club for the 9 seasons or whatever because we played well enough. We won't be next season because we didn't play well enough this year. That is all it is down to. You play in the league that you are good enough to play in. Or should we change the name of the sport to Whohasthemostfansinthebuildingtowatchfootball? If so- then yeah you're right.

[Mike the Dagger]

No! He's only gone and pulled out Fansfocus.net- number one website for all facts! How can anyone disagree with such a reputable website? Stop the arguments now!

Being big is irrelevant. It's being good that counts. Leicester aren't as big as United, but they' are and should be champions of England because they played the best football in England and United are not going to be champions because they didn't.

Bournemouth aren't bigger than Villa. But they should be a premier league club because they played well enough and villa shouldn't be because they didn't.

We were a football league club for the 9 seasons or whatever because we played well enough. We won't be next season because we didn't play well enough this year. That is all it is down to. You play in the league that you are good enough to play in. Or should we change the name of the sport to Whohasthemostfansinthebuildingtowatchfootball? If so- then yeah you're right.

Jesus, keep your hair on.

No one is saying teams can't play above or below "their level", the discussion is what that level is for the Daggers. It is harder for a team to sustain a level if that is not their "natural" level. So Bournemouth and Leicester are over achieving while Villa and Newcastle are under achieving. In time, if they don't change something permenantly (new stadium, influx of reliable money etc.), will they return to ""their level", almost definitely. Chelsea and Man City used to be a middle of the top division sorts of teams, then came massive invenstment...

Blackpool were not a natural Premier League club, but they played there. They also aren't a natural League Two club, but next season... you get it?

[NBDag]

No! He's only gone and pulled out Fansfocus.net- number one website for all facts! How can anyone disagree with such a reputable website? Stop the arguments now!

Being big is irrelevant. It's being good that counts. Leicester aren't as big as United, but they' are and should be champions of England because they played the best football in England and United are not going to be champions because they didn't.

Bournemouth aren't bigger than Villa. But they should be a premier league club because they played well enough and villa shouldn't be because they didn't.

We were a football league club for the 9 seasons or whatever because we played well enough. We won't be next season because we didn't play well enough this year. That is all it is down to. You play in the league that you are good enough to play in. Or should we change the name of the sport to Whohasthemostfansinthebuildingtowatchfootball? If so- then yeah you're right.

Jesus, keep your hair on.

No one is saying teams can't play above or below "their level", the discussion is what that level is for the Daggers.

Blackpool were not a natural Premier League club, but they played there. They also aren't a natural League Two club, but next season... you get it?

Well don't use stupid websites to prove a point! But ok let's focus on the "natural" element to all this. If it's not natural, what unnatural event caused it? Did Dagenham cheat their way into the football league? Is John Still actually God and we got there by divine intervention? Did Dagenham or any other team get to where they are by anything other than football played in good faith? Only then it is unnatural.

[Mike the Dagger]

Well don't use stupid websites to prove a point! But ok let's focus on the "natural" element to all this. If it's not natural, what unnatural event caused it? Did Dagenham cheat their way into the football league? Is John Still actually God and we got there by divine intervention? Did Dagenham or any other team get to where they are by anything other than football played in good faith? Only then it is unnatural.

Given I wrote that article on my own "stupid" website I think i can use it, what do you reckon?

Thing with football is every year some teams go up a level, and some go down. The trick is to be good enough to "go up" and then not bad enough to "go down" the next season. When you "go up" almost inevitably some o the teams you play will have more resources than you so you hope you can use team spirit, good coaching, good scouting, maybe even a youth system to level the playing field. If you do that you probably will stay put, maybe even prosper. Over time being at that higher level will attract more income, more fans and you might even start to become something you weren't before (think Wigan and the original Wimbledon maybe).

However, if you don't do it year in, year out gravity will start to take hold and eventually you will get sucked back to a level you can sustain on your usual income and crowd levels. That is what has happened to Dagenham & Redbridge. The momentum was lost when we got relegated from League One. Then we lost the good scouting when Stilly moved on and Burnett started hiring journeymen that didn't gove a shit and here we are. Doesn't mean it can't be turned around again, but it's likely to take a while.

[NBDag]

I can go out and write a paper on quantum physics (something I know bugger all about) if I wanted to. But unfortunately that doesn't make what I write correct, and it doesn't mean that it should be used as a framework for all work within that field.

But you haven't answered my question. What's the unnatural event that put us in the football league?

[Mike the Dagger]

I can go out and write a paper on quantum physics (something I know bugger all about) if I wanted to. But unfortunately that doesn't make what I write correct, and it doesn't mean that it should be used as a framework for all work within that field.

But you haven't answered my question. What's the unnatural event that put us in the football league?

I think I have answered that several times, clubs have good seasons and bad seasons. We had a good season when things worked out (found a 30 goal a year forward in Benno, signed players like CMS, Saunders, Rainford, Sloma and didn't have too many injuries) and finished top of the Conference. It can happen. Sustaining it is the trick, which we just about managed the first season up, then overachieved again (team spirit, good coaching, good scouting) to get up another level.

Eventually though gravity has caught up with us, partly through forgetting what got us where we were (team spirt, good coaching. good scouting). If we had saved ourselves this season somehow, we would still have to have a really massive turn around to be comfortable next season, as we have no real ability to financially compete with the clubs around us in League Two.

It really isn't quantum physics at all. Football is money. Money is how much some Russian billionaire is willing to feed in or more realistically how many replica shirts you sell, or who you can find to put their name on those as sponsor, which is down in the end to how many fans you have. It's broad maths but it works over time. Honestly it does.

[NBDag]

But what you've described is the normal process of football. We got into the football league through the football's normal process, we've dropped out of it through its normal process. Nothing unnatural has happened at any point. No team can be considered to not be in its natural level, unless the team cheats its way up or is cheated out of going up/down.

[Mike the Dagger]

[NBDag]

I do not have a clue what a picture of Yoda is doing there- but ok then. You don't have a reply because you don't have a point.

[Mike the Dagger]

I do not have a clue what a picture of Yoda is doing there- but ok then. You don't have a reply because you don't have a point.

OK, i'll try one more time.

Glasgow Rangers... Relegated to the bottom level of Scottish football for various issues.

Now back in the top level. Inevitable or not?

[NBDag]

I do not have a clue what a picture of Yoda is doing there- but ok then. You don't have a reply because you don't have a point.

OK, i'll try one more time.

Glasgow Rangers... Relegated to the bottom level of Scottish football for various issues.

Now back in the top level. Inevitable or not?

Ok well this is a good example, it works with what I have been saying. So they got relegated because they went into liquidation, that's pretty unnatural for a team to go from the top tier to the 4th tier or whatever in one go. They didn't play to a standard that warranted being dropped down to the 4th tier. So yes in that case it was acceptable to say that they were at an unnatural level. How does that make your point? Dagenham didn't get fired up several leagues in one go, they played their way up.