Last night's meeting

[Auntie Merge]

Please don't take your eyes off the financial aspects.

It may be a long time ago but me and Dennis Brimley were forever questioning the board at AGMs about finances, asking for full information, Ts to be crossed, Is to be dotted sort of thing. We kept on repeatedly asking questions and for explanations.
Some people got fed up with us, always banging on about the same things. Maybe a bit like some people are getting fed up on here.'

And Lo and behold, Trevor Dicks wasn't being entirely honest.

I'm not saying this is happening again, but there must be financial clarity. The club is a business; it has accounts, it has an accountant. But why are they being so cagey at the moment? What is there to hide? Until the vote was taken it was still 100% a members club, the members should be fully informed. How much has Tamplin PAID already?

[dagger4eva]

I’m with Suzanne on this one. It’s her and anybody else’s right to peacefully protest – and whilst I thought some of the recent hear say ‘he said / she said’ stuff detracted from the bigger issue in hand, there are still many things that DO need answers, and the fact the club / board (Steve) continue to deal with this so underhandedly should raise alarms with everyone.

I get fully this whole affair has dragged on tediously now for far too long but the fact remains this takeover represents probably the biggest event the club – at least in its current guise may ever undertake. So, if you are ‘bored’ or ‘don’t care’ about the issues concerned then perhaps feel free to ignore this or any future threads on the subject and worry only about the football. It really isn’t so difficult. Many people do care about more than just the football and it is their right to fight to ensure the club isn’t taken down the Hornchurch, Grays, Rushden etc. route with a whimper.

The club, in its statement said there was a “full and lengthy debate” prior to the vote and yet, despite the meeting starting at 7pm – the vote result was known and announced by some at 8:10pm. I’m not sure how a whole 1hr 10 mins is anywhere near sufficient time to allow for a full and lengthy debate, and a vote to be had and counted.

Obvious points that MUST be answered and clarified prior to the final vote in 2 months include:
• Why the club was categorically against providing members with the latest financial statements prior to the vote. Packs for the November AGM would / should be prepared for sending by now. They stated the club is currently living month to month but I wouldn't actually be surprised in the slightest if the club is in nowhere near as perilous a position as it is making out right now – all for the benefit of getting Tamplin in.
• Is the £725,000 being paid by Tamplin his own cash or actually, has he taken a loan? From day 1, it’s seemed apparent to many that despite being ‘worth’ £45mil (apparently) – he doesn’t actually have the cash being invested.
• Has all, or in fact any of the promised £200k yet been given to the club? This question was totally fudged by Tamplin and he very quickly moved the subject on without giving an answer.
• Why was the consortium proposing a merge between the Supporters Club & Members when just a couple of hours prior to the vote, Consortium Member, Bennett (away, AGAIN) makes a statement effectively poo-poo’ing the idea
• Why was the vote a choice of Tamplin or Abstain. To abstain would tend to indicate no preference. This cannot be correct & proper, legally?


I believe this still has a considerable way to run yet and Tamplin/Thompson & co. have a lot of work to do / answers to give to ensure they retain &/or increase upon the previous 75% acquired in order to get the final constitution vote through the door.

One final point;
When questioned about keeping on 4 board members who helped drag the club down to this point, Tamplin stated that he would be the captain of the ship and further “I operate under the 3 strikes and you’re out rule”
Well, I have 3 things to say to him:
AGP Steels Ltd
Complete Steels Services Ltd
Complete Steel Ltd

By my reckoning my old chum – that makes you a gonner!!

Keep up the good work Suzanne.

[The Romford Dagger]

Why cant people just respect Merge, let her protest if she wants she is not doing anyone any harm. Its her right to do so.

What gives anyone the right to tell her to give it a rest or have a day off, just leave her be or you are the ones beginning to sound like moaners.

People have a right to an opinion.


It's of my opinion that she's made her point. I don't think the protest was necessary on Monday personally.

Tell people to give it a rest or have a day off is not an opinion.

I never said that though.

[Mark]

I get fully this whole affair has dragged on tediously now for far too long but the fact remains this takeover represents probably the biggest event the club – at least in its current guise may ever undertake. So, if you are ‘bored’ or ‘don’t care’ about the issues concerned then perhaps feel free to ignore this or any future threads on the subject and worry only about the football. It really isn’t so difficult. Many people do care about more than just the football and it is their right to fight to ensure the club isn’t taken down the Hornchurch, Grays, Rushden etc. route with a whimper.

The club, in its statement said there was a “full and lengthy debate” prior to the vote and yet, despite the meeting starting at 7pm – the vote result was known and announced by some at 8:10pm. I’m not sure how a whole 1hr 10 mins is anywhere near sufficient time to allow for a full and lengthy debate, and a vote to be had and counted.

Obvious points that MUST be answered and clarified prior to the final vote in 2 months include:
• Why the club was categorically against providing members with the latest financial statements prior to the vote. Packs for the November AGM would / should be prepared for sending by now. They stated the club is currently living month to month but I wouldn't actually be surprised in the slightest if the club is in nowhere near as perilous a position as it is making out right now – all for the benefit of getting Tamplin in.
• Is the £725,000 being paid by Tamplin his own cash or actually, has he taken a loan? From day 1, it’s seemed apparent to many that despite being ‘worth’ £45mil (apparently) – he doesn’t actually have the cash being invested.
• Has all, or in fact any of the promised £200k yet been given to the club? This question was totally fudged by Tamplin and he very quickly moved the subject on without giving an answer.
• Why was the consortium proposing a merge between the Supporters Club & Members when just a couple of hours prior to the vote, Consortium Member, Bennett (away, AGAIN) makes a statement effectively poo-poo’ing the idea
• Why was the vote a choice of Tamplin or Abstain. To abstain would tend to indicate no preference. This cannot be correct & proper, legally?

This

[Chigwellian]

Definetly this...

I don't understand why no member asked any of these questions, as they have been bandered around on the forum many times..

..... And why if asking any of the questions, why they didn't keep standing and demand an answer ... And just not give up on it...

[TomMc]

Definetly this...

I don't understand why no member asked any of these questions, as they have been bandered around on the forum many times..

..... And why if asking any of the questions, why they didn't keep standing and demand an answer ... And just not give up on it...

Maybe some people aren't as confident asking certain questions face-to-face with someone as they would be asking the same questions anonymously on an internet forum?

[Diggerthedog]

To be fair most of the members are more likely to be in a bingo hall then be on the Internet. They will only know what they are being told hardly any of the stuff on here they will know about. At the first meeting the average age was about 70.

[Mark]

Tbh like Mike I'm annoyed with myself not being a member. I guess I never thought it would come to this and I existed in a bubble where I thought the members were plentiful and representative of the supporters enough for it not to matter too much.

If this tells us anything it's that the fans need to make themselves heard.

[Pie & Mash]

What questions didn't he answer? Any quotes?

[Phippo]

To be fair most of the members are more likely to be in a bingo hall then be on the Internet. They will only know what they are being told hardly any of the stuff on here they will know about. At the first meeting the average age was about 70.

That "opinion" comes across as somewhat arrogant and disrespectful! The average means what then? With age comes wisdom (so I'm led to believe), but I guess at any age it's best to put the brain in gear before letting the mouth move forward!

[Voice of reason]

To be fair most of the members are more likely to be in a bingo hall then be on the Internet. They will only know what they are being told hardly any of the stuff on here they will know about. At the first meeting the average age was about 70.

That "opinion" comes across as somewhat arrogant and disrespectful! The average means what then? With age comes wisdom (so I'm led to believe), but I guess at any age it's best to put the brain in gear before letting the mouth move forward!

Very good point Phippo

It's not a case of older people being gullible, more that they are themselves decent people with honour and expect others to have those same standards

Those of us who've had the misfortune to be involved in running businesses for years get to learn the hard way not to accept assurances regarding payment and future conduct at face value however persuasive the person on the opposite side

My job has meant that I have become more cynical and expecting the worst becomes the default position

Ironically I'm currently involved in a takeover of a business with a turnover significantly lower than Daggers but both sides have to agree to a detailed schedule of specified payments with dates and guarantees agreed by lawyers on each end of the deal

It's been going on for months with both companies being obliged to supply all sorts of information as part of due diligence even though both parties want to do the deal

Unhappy experience over the years explains my uneasiness over this deal which on the face of it appears either totally amateurish or sinister depending on your viewpoint

[Diggerthedog]

My post was not meant to cause offence. I was simply saying there has been far much more information on here/digger dagger.com (Thanks to Mike) then what the clubs has officially released.

The stuff the club has officially given is nothing but biased propaganda highlighted by Dave the plumbers letter given to the members whilst the entered the door Monday, no pressure there.

[davei]

From afar, some points to ponder.

Firstly, as a business, were there any year-end financials for the last fiscal year provided to those voting prior to the meeting....??

If so the fiscal picture should be clear given there would have to now be a set of in house interim financials going forward from that year end up until at the very least the end of September. Were those (interim) statements viewed...?

If both year-end and interim statements were not available, why not.

Making a decision without the benefit of as current financials as possible, interim or otherwise, is foolish. While being a bit extreme, WALMART can have an exact financial position of their entire worldwide operation within 24 hours of closing the last store in the cycle. That said, surely such a small business as D&R should be able to provide at the very least interim statements from the last year end.

It would appear (to be corrected) only a guarantee is being provided, not actually putting up any cash (other than that already supposedly provided). So, the question is (with OPM in mind) if you were selling your car or house to someone and they "guaranteed" to give you the money 6-12 months from now but wanted full use and rights to your car or house in the interim, would you enter in to that type of a deal...?

Or would you prefer the deal with cash in your hand....?

[Adrian]

The club doesn't have to produce interim financial statements.
The statements that it does have to produce are so minimal that they're basically useless.

No business makes financial statements available until they're officially released, so I'm not sure why there's been been a suggestion that hey should have in this case.

[Mike the Dagger]

The club doesn't have to produce interim financial statements.
The statements that it does have to produce are so minimal that they're basically useless.

No business makes financial statements available until they're officially released, so I'm not sure why there's been been a suggestion that hey should have in this case.

The club have to release year end financial figures (to June 2016) in time for the AGM very shortly. Given that these will show we probably overspent massively in 2015/16 trying to survive the board giving Wayne Burnett a dopey new two year contract and getting us relegated I would suggest that this will spport the assumption that we are in a hole.

However, what actually matters in what the forecast position is, not what the position was in June 2016. How much are we spending now to be 2nd in the National League and signing all sorts of players, where is the money coming from for that (sponsors/donations/loans/investments) and what is coming in from the FL parachute payment and when (which I am advised is £470k in "October"). This is what should have been presented to members on Monday, and that they should have demanded to see before any vote as it is key to whether we need investment or not to survive short and long term.

What they appear to have got was Tommo telling them that it was not advisable to release detailed financial figures in public (err the Members own the club at present they are not the public!) and that the club was surviving month to month at the moment, and that it would not survive the season should there be no investment.

The implication here is that the parachute payment of £470k is not covering the hole we are in and we need investment on top of this.

Why has someone (other than Dave Bennett) that got us here not resigned or been fired?