Eastleigh (A)

Discuss all matters related to Dagenham and Redbridge
Mark
Posts: 1550
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:04 pm

I thought I'd try to list a little bit about some of the mismanagement we've seen over those ten years.

- sold our best striker and didn't replace him, relegated by effectively one goal from the best level we've ever played at.
- once again failed to sign a goalscorer and came close to dropping straight through to the conference, meanwhile our best one knocks in 40 odd for Stortford
- sold two of our best players for fees and didn't sign anyone at all, appointed a manager who managed 2 wins in 12, stayed up miraculously on goal difference after losing last 3 games, still no striker
- give that manager a contract cos he was the cheap option. Admittedly he did well for the first season, mainly cos he signed some forwards.
- next season was terrible until late January - we were 23rd. Signed mercenaries like Batt, Porter. Put a late run together to move into mid table.
- decided to give the manager a 2 year deal. He then presided over the worst summer of transfers I can remember. Terrible attitudes like Ferdinand, J Hoyte, Passley came in, and lost Doe, Ogogo, Bingham, Howell.
- forced to pay up Burnett, went back to Still in desperation, arguably a decent choice. Relegated anyway.
- we then get told the club is going skint. ****** knows why as we have barely signed a decent player in years. Seems we had been spunking wages on rubbish.
- Start courting Tamplin, and spent his money before any deal was actually done
- ended up with Hopkin plugging the financial gap, continued to spend
- Nearly went belly up again, flogged all the players we'd signed without any guarantees that Hopkin would fund it
- brought in Taylor who just about kept us up on an initial shoestring, but still never looked convincing even when money arrived from America in October
- extend Taylor contract. Spends his new found budget incredibly badly, we are somehow actually worse despite the increased wage bill.
- McMahon comes in and keeps us up, but then spends the summer building another expensive but largely poor squad. All the pace and tempo he used to keep us up is gone, now we just have a team of plodders.

Have I missed anything?

New manager or not, our troubles are much much bigger. We need someone in the MD or DoF position who is capable of making good football decisions, will manage the budget a bit more sensibly, and instill a culture and blueprint for our success. We need a direction, a recruitment plan. For years we just sign a bunch of players or change the manager without any real plan. It's not good enough.

With the owners and infrastructure we have, we should be consistently at the top end of this league at a minimum. By all means spend a bit of money from the owners pocket, but only if it's the right player.
Diggerthedog
Posts: 3893
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:08 pm

Great post.

The Hopkin thing makes me chuckle, as no Guarantee was not in place, same as the national league and the government funding shambles but guess who sits high up on that board.

One thing you’ve missed off is that we’ve had the most incompetent physio professional football has ever seen. Players playing on in games with broken bones, players coming back for one game and then not seen again for months. Two week injuries becoming months. When did this physio become a physio, times in medical change have advanced dramatically.

Get rid of the old boys club Thompson, Bennett, Gwinn and Gowens start a fresh and then see if it works, what else can be tried? Nothing, they decide on it ultimately as they’re the ones advising the owners.

If Still comes back I’m fully done with the club.
Pablo
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:39 pm

There is no doubt that most of our performances this season have been jaw droppingly bad starting with the opening game at Halifax where were hopelessly off the pace and from memory didn't win a tackle, make a cross or have a shot on target. Apart from the Ebbsfleet cup game one could make a case that we could have lost every game we have played and should have lost most. There has been no cohesion whatsoever, no system and no strategy. It's hard to recall any sustained period of pressure against anyone. It's always too easy to blame managers and I've always refrained from this in the past - and most of us did welcome McMahon's appointment, including me- but the buck must stop with him here. We KNOW Justham, Balanta, Dearing, Croll and McCiullum can play very successfully at this level but they look, confused, dispirited, demoralised and unfit. Something is seriously wrong. I'd get Jody Brown - a bright man who knows non league football inside out and Terry Harris back. They were unbeaten in their two game tenure (!) would be cheap and certainly couldn't do any worse.
DI Mike Dashwood
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:56 pm

Good post Mark, and a pretty good summary of the last 10 years!!! I wouldn't disgaree with anything on the timeline.

Would just point out a couple of things though. Not that I would say I disagree with most or any of what you have put, but just a little bit of an alternative view (hope that's allowed)!!

The relegation from League One is a real frustration for all of us, as we came so close to pulling off the miracle. The timing of the Benson sale still annoys me now as it gave us very little time to plan or bring someone else in. If that had been done earlier or differently, would we have stayed up?? Nobody really knows, although judging by how close we were anyway, we maybe would have done. All I would say is that further down you, and others, have said we shouldn't be spending money we don't have (or words to that effect) so you could argue that it's contradictory to say/hint we should have done otherwise?? It may be that the money from the Benno sale was needed at that time to balance the books??

Being in League One was also a major major achievement, a modern day football miracle in many ways. I know you have been around for the whole journey up and down, like many others, and I will no doubt be shouted down for pointing out, but we are not in a worse position than at a couple of other points in the club's 29 year history. We have been lower. We have been in a bigger mess. League One, was a miracle, but even getting into the League was in it's own way a massive achievement for a club of our size?? I would also point out that a lot (not all) of clubs who were always decent, well run, competitive Conference sides and went into the League are now back where they started or worse (and many more will follow). Macc, Yeovil, Scarborough, Barnet...........are the ones which spring to mind. Other ex league clubs who got back up (Darlo for instance) then fell right off the radar, while others who were in the first category are not exactly much better off (Stevenage and Morecambe for instance). Yes there is Wycombe. Yes there are Fleetwood and Accy (although at least one is propped up by a high net individual) and yes there is Burton (although they are sinking). All I am trying to say is that it is a huge jump, dictated a lot by money and history and also by a little bit of luck?? Again, that's not to say I don't agree with what you have said or with peoples frustrations.

Conference (National, South, North) football is a strange concept and level these days. It is run as a full time business (with generally full time staff and players) but without a particularly sustainable income model. People will say clubs (D and R in this debate) should do more to generate income and this that and the other, but all of these things require outlay, and a lot of clubs at this level are in communities where generating a lot of income through different ventures is not easy. I think the Conference as a product and a brand and succcess story was far more attractive in the old genuine semi-pro era?? I think the crowds at clubs like Yeovil (and old non league clubs in the league such as Morecambe) show that supporters and communities maybe felt that as well??

Non league football and Conference football is different to say, recreational cricket, as there is a lot more paid staff/players. But I think the concepts are the same. I use this as a comparison as it's an area I know a lot more about than running a non-league football club!! What I mean is, people make decisions, normally with good intentions, and some work out, some don't. The people who get a club to a certain level and are considered heroes will soon be knocked and criticised if things then don't work out. People have short memories of where they came from and who made them a success to start with. It requires constant energy and enthusiasm from all involved in all aspects, and I do agree that is something which now appears to be lacking on and off the pitch and on the terraces (well, not on the terraces at the moment, but you know what I mean).

I think maybe now is a time for a complete overhaul and change of how we do things and the direction the club is trying to go in. But these things don't happen overnight?? Are people really ready for that?? People say "I would rather see us develop some kids and local players and develop slowly than play a load of mercenaries", but do people, ie you people on here, really mean that?? If we took that approach and were second from bottom this time next year what would you say??

Anyway, I am done (with the typing, not with the club. Not yet anyway ha ha). Just my thoughts. I do share peoples frustrations, and when you see such a long and accurate list as Mark has put up it does make you think it's not all bad luck and a one off over ten years.

Anyhow, stay safe people, and keep the faith.
Mark
Posts: 1550
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:04 pm

I think that's fair enough. I can't disagree that getting to League One was a bit of a fairy tale and definitely don't think we could've expected to stay there for long. Maybe we did need the Benno money to plug a gap, but I doubt the short term fixes we then had to try were particularly cheap e.g. Akinde, Morgan. Even so, upon relegation we should've been able to make a better fist of it.

I think people would rather a team of hungry youngsters over what we've got now, but I do agree the support for it wouldn't last long. People ultimately expect this club to be near the top. It's just frustrating to watch other clubs in recent years do better than us on smaller budgets and with nothing more than a plan and a work ethic.
Diggerthedog
Posts: 3893
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:08 pm

It's the lack of ambition of the league one season that infuriated me it was more of a well we made it and will enjoy it but we 100% should have had enough to stay up, our first home game we agreed to cancel (sadly due to the death of Adam Stanfield) but that left us without a home game and we never won any of the away ones either side, pushovers starting on the backfoot little old nice Dagenham. Brentford went up the same season as us and had an Identical financial turnover to our books, now look at them.

The same people with that ambition still have a say to this very day and this is now the 3rd manager that has failed after Burnett came Taylor and now McMahon with the previous two kept in a job for at least a year too long. Lets see how long it takes with the current shower that is this manager to be sent packing, we can all see it how can the board or the owners not? How many more bad decisions can be made without consequences, as many as they like it seems. Shambles.

Things will never change and our supporters are slowly turning their backs sick to the back teeth of the same old farts making the same old decisions regardless of who the owners are.
DI Mike Dashwood
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:56 pm

I don't disagree the last ten years have been painful and hardwork for supporters. I can hardly recall 5 memorable games or days out (based on the football) since May 2021. The ten years before that I could name you 20 without even thinking. I used to do 40-45 games a season like a lot of people on here, then that went down to about half that, and now maybe 15-20 (I know nobody is going at the moment). The initial drop was because of family, money, growing up, work, but the second drop has been because if something else interesting now comes up and we have a bog standard game I may miss the football because it's not so appealing. Maybe that makes me disloyal or wrong to speak on it, but that is the honest situation, and am sure it is same for others. I guess that actually means we all agree to an extent!!!

The Brentford comparison I would argue is a bit unfair in a number of ways. Yes, they went up the same season as us (what a great night that win at home in the April was by the way, one of the best that) but Brentford are a much bigger club than us in so many ways?? They have bobbed around the bottom two divisions for a lot of their time but have also had other periods in the second flight (early to mid 90s) and have a larger core support than we will ever have. However, I do agree that ambition and a long term plan are what is needed at our club, and something Brentford have demonstrated very well (albeit in my eyes at a different level and with different capabilities). I think we lack a long term plan of where the club wants to go personally. Ambition is great, and I think we lack that to an extent, but it can also be dangerous as I think it gives the opinion, rightly or wrongly, of wanting to suddenly get from A to B very quickly which can lead to trouble (and normally involves spending a lot of money, which is often not really there to spend). Again, comparing to the cricket/recreational sports club analogy, having a long term plan or model in place is now common practice and gives everyone a common goal to work towards. Successful clubs I have seen, especially those who have climbed from a lower tier to a higher level and then sustained it (the crucial factor) all have very specific and detailed long term plans and models, and these are always being reviewed and updated.

My question to DtD and Mark is, what would you want in that long term plan?? Obviously we could write pages on it, but what high level, fairly broad points would you want in it?? Over say, ten years. Not this time next year, but where at the start of say, 2020 do you want the club to be?? And what do you want the club to be?? And crucially, should the club not be at the various targets it needs to be within that period, how would you deal with those and reset?? It is easy for us all to write a wish list (say we want to be mid table in League One, with average gates of 3,500, and a well respected Academy) but how would you start to get there??
RayleighDagger1986
Posts: 807
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:01 pm

If the owners are serious about this club then sack McMahon and invest in Danny Cowley
DI Mike Dashwood
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:56 pm

Do people really think Danny Cowley is a realistic target if McMahon went??

I did mention him as a potential Daggers manager to the HLP boys.............about 7 years ago!! I am sure he has had and is having a lot of job offers at Championship and League One level. It would cost a huge amount to tempt him to come here, despite being a local lad and ex player. This is where personally I think people get carried away on the ambition thing. I think Jody Brown and Terry Harris are a far more realistic proposition (although can't see any club at this level sacking their manager at this point in time).

Besides if Cowley was given the role and did a good job, after a few months he would get a load of offers again as they would be reminded what he is capable of and be off. And then we would be back to square one!!
RayleighDagger1986
Posts: 807
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:01 pm

Why not Mike. If he is available, there's no harm on asking.
Don't forget we've had an ex England manager in Taylor here. Did anyone think 7-8 years back that would have happened. I didn't!
You just never know, be optimistic!
jag
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:13 am

Paul McCullam, what does he do? I watched him last night and he gives me the impression that if you don't pass the ball directly to my feet I will not be running, he was the same against Sutton and Kings Lynn, Rance has got to start playing and not trying to be so macho and giving away silly free kicks along with 1 or 2 others, the team need to understand how to manage the weather conditions and pitch, last nights game did not need to look pretty ie, using the passing game, but hoofing when needed and I hate hoofing, the passing throughout Saturdays game was very much improved but was not required so much last night, I got so fed up at 70 minutes that I went down the road a few miles to watch the Arsenal game. I will still be watching on Saturday against Chesterfield COYD>
Mark
Posts: 1550
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:04 pm

DI Mike Dashwood wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:55 pm
My question to DtD and Mark is, what would you want in that long term plan?? Obviously we could write pages on it, but what high level, fairly broad points would you want in it?? Over say, ten years. Not this time next year, but where at the start of say, 2020 do you want the club to be?? And what do you want the club to be?? And crucially, should the club not be at the various targets it needs to be within that period, how would you deal with those and reset?? It is easy for us all to write a wish list (say we want to be mid table in League One, with average gates of 3,500, and a well respected Academy) but how would you start to get there??
I think a realistic vision is to be a well established outfit at the right end of League Two by 2030.

I'd like to see some goals within that e.g. 'augment the budget by selling on average 1 player per year to higher level clubs', 'nuture future fanbase by maintaining and building community links'. I'd like to see an objective around being relatively sustainable financially - I'm not saying don't speculate, but definitely don't commit to, for example, 3-year deals on a host of players that take you to 150% of your turnover spent on salaries - it has to be recoverable if the owners stop supporting it, even if that recovery is painful. You can put a series of measures against each of these goals and get everyone at the club striving for them, pulling in the same direction. I've not seen many successful businesses these days who don't have those shared targets.

Shorter term, I think you need a 3-year plan to get promoted out of this league. Not a "we're going to sign 15 new players and get promoted this year" - you have to build something and it might come quicker if the stars align. As a board you need to identify the values you have and what you want from the football team, you have to find a manager that fits them, and you have to stick to it. On the football side there's all sorts of metrics and statistics you can use to identify the players - the richness of information available about even conference players is incredible. You need good scouting, you need hungry players, you need a blend of youth and experience, players of complimentary abilities. One issue we've had is that Daryl seems to have abandoned his own blueprint - he was all about fitness, tempo and front-foot but signed players who can't provide those things. The board, or someone on it, should know enough to be having intelligent conversations about that before we end up with the whole budget spent on the wrong players. I'm not saying the manager should be micro-managed, but open dialog about what is happening and why is essential. If I told my manager at work that I wanted to spend 50k on a new piece of technology a week after I'd spent 50k on something similar, he'd want to have a frank conversation - I'm not sure that happens at our place, it seems the manager is recently just getting whatever expensive sticking-plaster he's asking for.

Off the pitch, I think we were starting to find the right idea before Covid hit. Ground looks great, clubhouse looks inviting for events, branding and online presence has improved a lot. I'm sure more could be done with the bar on non-matchdays, it seems to have fallen off a lot in the last ten years, meanwhile the Pipe is often busy just down the road.

Getting people through the gate is largely a function of which division we're in. 4th in the league we got 1400, 18th in the league we got 1400 still. One achievable goal could be to find, say, 100 fans. Speaking to the casuals might give us an idea of where we're going wrong. Complaints I've often heard are lack of atmosphere/noise, lack of half-time pint, and relatively poor performance on the pitch. We tend to find excuses for not improving some of this, rather than solutions.

As for what happens when it goes wrong, you have to assess the reasons and try to learn, not just sulk or say "oh well" and keep doing the same old things. Even the best plans can fail in practice, but there should be opportunities to rescue them before they become a disaster. I'd like to think a competent board could have prevented us ending up in a relegation battle on top-5 money, regardless of what the manager is asking for.
DaggerJoel11
Posts: 1190
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:14 pm
Location: Becontree
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Some really excellent analytical comments on this thread that give a great account of why the last decade has seen a steady decline from us being an established Football League side to one whose default position now lies just a few places above the drop zone of the National League.

Some insightful reasons for this have been outlined above. September of this year will mark three years since the Americans seized control and though they've invested substantially in both the club's infrastructure and playing/managerial squad, we've barely broken into the top half during that entire period, consistently being outperformed by sides with a fraction of our budget.

I was amongst many who welcomed the appointment of McMahon, and that was justified by his first couple of months in the role where we played on the front foot and attacked with intensity. This led to good results against decent sides like Notts and Solihull, however that brand of football seems to have been abandoned nearly a year on and we lack an identity completely. We don't have a settled shape, gameplan or starting eleven.

Not many players have given particularly good accounts of themselves all season but the ones who've emerged with any credit tend to be players McMahon inherited. Maybe with the exception of Weston, every signing of his has been largely disappointing. McCallum was an excellent acquisition on paper but has looked a shadow of the player that was revered at this level for so long before joining us.

Providing the season finishes, I don't anticipate anything other than a bland mid-table campaign at the very best. We'll have the odd decent result or impressive run here and there, but it'll never be quite enough. I don't think that will ever be the case under this manager but time will tell, and with the ongoing uncertainty in football I think time is what he'll get.
Last edited by DaggerJoel11 on Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
''Dagenham & Redbridge look a very different side to about ten or fifteen minutes ago when they were on the back foot, and here's Benson...BRILLIANT!''
themightydagger
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:24 pm

DI Mike Dashwood wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:35 pm Do people really think Danny Cowley is a realistic target if McMahon went??

I did mention him as a potential Daggers manager to the HLP boys.............about 7 years ago!! I am sure he has had and is having a lot of job offers at Championship and League One level. It would cost a huge amount to tempt him to come here, despite being a local lad and ex player. This is where personally I think people get carried away on the ambition thing. I think Jody Brown and Terry Harris are a far more realistic proposition (although can't see any club at this level sacking their manager at this point in time).

Besides if Cowley was given the role and did a good job, after a few months he would get a load of offers again as they would be reminded what he is capable of and be off. And then we would be back to square one!!
Totally agree that Cowleys are a dream and only a dream. I cant agree with Jody and Terry Harris. Jody i could go with, maybe, but he showed loyalty in a game where loyalty means very little. He showed loyalty to Taylor, who i expect wouldve taken a job without him!

Harris, unfortunately takes us back into that old school Dagenham cycle. We need fresh ideas, not someone whos been in and out over the years. I know its what feels comfortable, but we do need to get away from that and move forward.
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