The Spirit and Buzz Has Gone

[Auntie Merge]

I agree entirely with the original post. The spirit and buzz has gone. Even I'm feeling despondent and I've been there since we were crap (and before, watching Leytonstone/Ilford get relegated to the Isthmian Division One was not fun).

Random thoughts (and sorry for a long post, i don't usually read long posts, let alone write them):

My first game at D&R was the 6-0 victory over Chester at the start of the 2008/2009 season.

One of my favourite games. I made my peace with the world that day.

But If only it was as simple as us winning 6-0 every game, but I would say some of it relates to off the pitch changes too.

Russell resigned from the Supporters Club and those left behind did not arrange an end of season disco, because they assumed (wrongly, very wrongly) that no one was interested. This mentally affects the players and the supporters apathy. "Why bother?" Well why not? I once had to plead and beg 17 people to come on a coach to LIFC playing at Bognor, I think the following year we got a minibus. But we always did our best to get whatever we had going, regardless of how low the support was or how badly the team was playing. It wasn't a 'oh we were young, we could do anything' attitude either. People of all ages participated.

Also, within the supporters club, it hasn't been since the Wembley Yellow TShirts, that we've had a T Shirt available for the supporters. Yes, you can get the official club shirt, or some polo shirt costing £20, but want I would like is a T shirt that costs me around £10, which I can put on when I go to the gym, ride my bike, down the pub etc. My old ones (Pub Team from Essex, Conference Champions, and Wembley Playoff Final) are all so faded and worn now. I go into the club shop and aside from a mousemat, keyring (old confguide joke) or mug, everything feels beyond my purse. No I'm not going to save up for a club shirt, that isn't what i want. I want a Tshirt.

The atmosphere in Victoria Road started to break up when at some point there were two drums under the sieve and they moved the original 'barmy army' a bit further down. I haven't been in the sieve for a number of years now, so I am not sure where the singers stand, but it might be a good idea to have an unofficial section where those who want to make some noise congregate, because I know they do at away matches.

It also feels like a lack of imagination from those making the noise. The same standard drum which doesn't seem to be whipping up the crowd at all. We haven't had any songs about players for ages, not since Paul Benson. When we go up for corners, there used to be more 'come on you reds' and now there isn't. When I sit in the Carling I am usually alone in my chant of 'come on you reds' and wait for the echo to come across from the sieve, but there is none. I now have a joke about the echo not working.

I feel very little pull to go into the bar on match days. I know I sort of stopped when I was ill but now I feel I have no incentive to go back into the clubhouse where I have had so many good times. Not quite sure why, or whether others feel the same.

I've never felt the players in the past couple of years or so have been part of the club. I agree about the comments re the sponsors lounge. Just don't get me started on moving the home dugout again... another fracture in the relationship between the players and the supporters.

The reason for this is that, in reality, the club has peaked. Well almost.
During the first 19 of those 22 years, we were a club on the rise. We had aims.

Realistically, we will be very lucky ever to see League One again, and anything higher is a pipe dream...

Subconsciously, this seeps through. The players know it, the managers knows it, the crowd knows it, and the Board know it....

Rather than a club with aims, we are a club battling for survival...

I'm afraid I have to disagree. I don't think we have peaked and I definitely do not believe that it is about ambition. We spent years in non league and if it wasn't for the Garry Hill cup runs, we'd probably have been yo-yoing between the Conference, and Conference South (a bit like Ebbsfleet at the moment) for many years to come.

What it is, is that some people integral to our club, who made us all Proud to be a Dagger have moved on with their lives, whether it is to another club, retirement or pastures new. We have also suffered some major bereavements, Bill Edmonds and Peter Pamment being two such people.
When you list a few integral faces, it becomes a bit clearer why the atmosphere and the buzz has gone

Dave Andrews
John Still
Terry Harris
Tony Roberts and many other old school players (Tim Cole, Lee Goodwin, Lee Matthews)
Russell Powis
Ted Hardy

All over the past 10-20 years have made us what we are. The challenge is now to ensure those who replace them have a similar sort of love for the club and contribute in such a way that we can pick up the pieces and restore ourselves. (not questioning anyone's commitment, btw). We are very lucky we have seen this now and are able to rectify it. Some of us need to pick up the challenge and move forward and take the club with us.

[steeevooo]

The sum of the parts has always been greater than the individuals at our Club, on and off the pitch. I always got the impression that Dagenham was an honest, working class area, and that people paid their money on a Saturday afternoon and as long as they saw effort and ambition and energy they would back the players and the Club. Thats why someone like Bas Savage was liked. Lets be honest, he was pretty average, but he tried, he looked bothered, he had a personality, people took to him. Leon Braithwaite was the same. It nook him 3 months to get a goal, but people never got on his case.

Agree with everything you have said in this thread Dashers, but this paragraph above is one of the key things for me. Like you, I have never expected exceptional quality at the Daggers, but have always expected commitment, fight and guts. I well remember Leon Braithwaite finally getting his first goal for us, and the celebrations from both players and fans was great - he was appreciated because he always grafted away and finally got a reward.
I've said to other people on numerous occasions this season that I don't think I have ever seen a Daggers side with less commitment and guts since I started watching in '97. Sussex Dagger summed it up perfectly at half time in Accy: "I've seen more guts in filleted cod".

[ARNU]

Its like the kids broke into the sweet shop but now they've eaten all the sweets.

Theres a few things that bother me.

This changing dugouts thing,Just removed our team further away from us,its like they don't want anything to do with us just because Waynes getting an earful from the Carling.When I first used to attend my boy was maybe 8 years old and could get autographs and photos done with all the players during the warm up.There'd be queues of kids getting their programs signed.That seems to be quite a rare occurrence now.Obviously he's now nearly 17 and is in that "must go to every game " mentality but even he's working out a way to dodge Wycombe Saturday as we speak.Back to the autographs,the players are less accessible for the kids at the other end is my point.The end of game walkround has all but stopped.With 7 home losses out of 9 or whatever it is now I do understand the players not having the neck to do it after embarrassing defeats but its just another little touch that has gone.You all know my feelings about the anonymous chairman "Dave the plumber".It might be a bit harsh but I think he has placed an almighty distance between himself and the supporters from the outset.Thommo's walk round the ground...has that stopped ? Havent noticed it this season.Wheres Digger the dog and his sweets ? Wheres the proper drummer ? And I haven't mentioned the crap football once.

[dagger4eva]

Funny enough - for all the things WB does say, one of them he says is unquestionable is the effort and work ethic of his players....

In defence, it is very rarely one of his team has taken an absolute spanking, with more often than not a game being decided by the odd goal.

Just thorwing that out there...

To an extent it worse that we don't get spanked. At least then it would be easy to say we're just rubbish.
Instead we get beaten by teams that aren't really much better than us but are never really troubled.
There is an element of them almost being able to wait until we make the inevitable mistake rather than having to really have a go at us.

Yeah, that's a fair comment I guess. And on the flip side of that (i.e. wishing we would actually take a damn good beating) - in the words of Basil Fawlty, when was the last time we actually handed out a spanking of our own?? Probably was the last time Fatty McFraud was in attendance!! And before that... I couldnt tell you!

Merge - dont even get me started on the lack of an end of season do... one of the most shameful things to happen, or not as the case may be in our relatively short history!
I've always thought that come rain or shine - no matter what has gone on before, the end of season bash was an opportunity for supporters, players and management to come together & have a right old knees up.
The fact not one single SC member could be arsed is I'm afraid just another thing that backs up the original post of this thread :(

[dagger4eva]

I've put my finger on the one thing that would solve all our troubles.......

Bring back the Slaggerettes's - sorry, Daggerettes

[leewilson]

Forget the style, forget the tactics, forget even the results (that comes as a result of the problem). In my view the biggest issue is the lack of spirit and enjoyment on and off the pitch. This Club has had it's ups and downs over it's 22 year history (and it's forerunners had even more), but for the most part there has always been a spirit and a buzz about the place. From the days after the merger and early good form in the Conference, through the tough years in the Ryman League and the visit to Wembley in 1997, to returning to the Conference, to missing out on promotion to the League (twice) and on eventually to League One. But from that relegation (in May 2011) to now, the spirit and buzz have gradually been in decline.

I can't put my finger on exactly what it is, I guess it is a number of factors, but it is definitely an issue. One of the reasons I think is the players. They have far less of a connection with the supporters. Back in the Conference days the players and fans had a much closer bond. They would be in the bar after the games with the fans. When we used to sponsor the matches back then Ashley Vickers, Lee Matthews, Tommy Cole, Gooders, Robbo would chat to everyone in the sponsors lounge, now the players look like they have been forced to pop their heads in for five minutes before moving on. Even the side of 4 or 5 years ago, including Benno, Danny Green, Arbs and Josh Scott seemed to appreciate the clubs unique history. I am sure people will have reasons for this (players don't drink, don't live in the area etc etc) and I am sure it is same at many clubs, but for us this spirit played a big part in our succcess and the erosion of it is a bigger problem for us than other clubs.

Atmosphere at games (maybe linked to the above) is also on the decline. Numbers are not the issue here either. I remember games against Donnie (a 3-3 draw around 2002) and Hereford (the year after the 9-0) when the crowd would have been less than 1,500 but the atmosphere was superb. Even when the numbers are up now (we have had several 2,000+ crowds in last two years) the atmosphere is terrible.

I am not sure of reasons for this, and maybe I am just becoming old and grumpy (well I am definitely becoming both of those!!) but things have definitely changed. I don't often agree with Adrian, but something he wrote earlier (I think it was him, apologies if wrong) applied to me as well. I always thought I would grow older and then take my kids to Dagenham every Saturday etc, but at the moment the enjoyment from it is so low I am not sure I will bother. The place is so devoid of any atmosphere or spirit it will be no fun for them.

I don't have the answers but something needs to be done to return some aspects of the club to their previous state.

Good post Mike. I think the fact that we are now a professional outfit has had a big impact. The type of characters we have in the playing staff are all a little more protective of their image and brand these days. I feel like having someone like Robbo in the playing staff was excellent almost to bring the young un's back down to earth and remind them where they came from. In the past, we've had a largely working class squad. The sort of people you can imagine seeing having a pint after work down the pub in the evening. That for me is the biggest thing that has gone.

[DaggerSince92]

In my opinion, I still love going over Viccy Road. I feel our bad run of form is a puzzle, and I enjoy seeing if we can solve it every week. We will get there eventually, in Wayne We Trust. Give him time.

[Mark]

I've been thinking along similar lines for a while Dashers.

There is apathy on the terrace and on the pitch.

[Richie]

Hard to argue with much said on this thread.

Was saying to people at work earlier that this is probably the most disillusioned I have been with Dagenham. As Adrian (I think) says in this thread we are not a bad team, if we had no money, were playing nobodies and were losing 4-1 every week I could at least accept that's where we are. BUT we have a decent team on paper, I'd imagine our wage bill is about as high as it ever has been and we just can't put a performance together.

All the reports from last night say that we were on top for 40 minutes, maybe we were but I was never confident. Always knew that the predictable would happen and we'd give away bad goals.

Do I think the club could do more? No not really, it's just been 5(?) seasons of more losses than wins. It's worn everyone down.

[TomMc]

Feeling the same as you Dashers. My interest has wained considerably over the last 4 or 5 years, and I haven't been over once this season yet, and I don't think that's likely to change soon either. Shame really as I always thought I'd always spend my Saturday afternoons over there, and want to be there too. More recently it's felt like a chore.

[DI Mike Dashwood]

So, went to my first away game of season on Saturday, and performance wise it was impressive in my book.

Just on the end of the game, it was interesting to note a couple of things. A lot of the travelling fans got up and were out as soon as the whistle went, which is fair enough, but myself and others stayed as I knew team would come over and I always stay (unless we have been terrible). Players took a while to come over, but they did all come over, but we were sat above the tunnel so they had to really!!!

Those who made an effort of walking in front of the whole away section were Doey and Jamie Cureton and to a certain extent Billy B. Most others gave a quick clap and then went down tunnel, although Ade did stop as well, as did Darren Currie and Warren to a certain extent.

It's not a criticism before anyone jumps in, and just pointing out. Interesting to note that Doey and Billy are our longest serving players, Cureton knows the game and whats what, and Ade is new and enthusiastic. Maybe those who have played for a lot of clubs on the circuit, and clubs higher up the pyramid in a number of cases, don't feel the need to make an effort??

[DI Mike Dashwood]

Thought this thread may have seen more action after Saturday with some of the vibes going round on other threads.

Just a few things I would say (just my own views):

- Steve Thompson cares as much about Dagenham and Redbridge FC as anyone, I assure you. Anyone who can't see that is in my view, very short sighted.

- D4E is a loyal and long-standing fan and has the right to air his views. Like myself he is a fairly big, loud and easy to pick out sort of bloke (I am sure he won't mind me saying that), which is probably the reason Steve singled him out. Not right, but easy to do in the heat of the moment (I have been on both the receiving and giving end of something like this in the past, not involving D and R mind).

- People should look up the meaning of the word support. This is not Chelsea or Man City, and by that I don't mean in terms of the football or the finances, I mean in terms of the loyalty and meaning of support.

- Boycotting Saturday will not help anyone, on or off the pitch. A look at the thread started by my good friend BilL Oddie last week (thats IanC in official terms) will also maybe remind some people that for a few reasons Saturday might actually be enjoyable. It's the FA Cup, no stresses of league positions, against old friends from the Conference, for 10 quid.

Anyway, I have put on tin hat and await responses.

Dashers

[Mike the Dagger]

There have been a lot of comments knocking around, similar to this, that the club is starting to lose its way from what it was when it really was acommunity and when you could go and have a chat to the manager or the players in the bar after the game, when they did a proper walk round the pitch after the game win, lose or draw (despite Steve Evans bullshit) and when fans were consulted on stuff like totally rebranding the club before it was done, not presented with it as a fait accompli.

Sadly it is all going badly wrong at the moment and the employees of the club are starting to circle the wagons and stick their fingers in their ears to cut out the grumblings of discontent from the terraces and that isn't helping anyone.

I agree Tommo is 100% a dagger and only ever seeks to do his absolute best for the club, but he has lost the check and balance that was Dave Andrews now (who had a "if is ain't broke, don't fix it" view on how the club worked) and like many I don't really know how the new Chairman works.

I noticed that one of our long time supporters was bragging he had stuck money on us losing at the point Shrewsbury went down to ten on Saturday, and if I was a gambling man, I would have been tempted to do the same. When your manager says after the game "I wasn't happy when their player got sent off, I felt it changed the game," what does that say about how he is thinking.

We aren't a club to lightly sack the manager, but enough is enough surely?

[ARNU]

This small club mentality needs to die once and for all.Its a business that carries no passengers.If you want league football and not to be bouncing along the bottom all the time that mentality needs to die.It is inevitable that the consequence of that mentality dieing,that the small club community stuff will go out the window with it.That is a shame and very sad.You only have to listen to the quietness on the terraces to see where we are now.Id say sack the old fuddy duddy board and get a team in that are upto this sort of pressure and who have the minerals to sort the club out.Now some of you might not like this view but are you really happy how it is now.Im not.This is the work of this current board and management who are deaf to our requests and needs.They don't know what they're doing.

[Mike the Dagger]

This small club mentality needs to die once and for all.Its a business that carries no passengers.If you want league football and not to be bouncing along the bottom all the time that mentality needs to die.It is inevitable that the consequence of that mentality dieing,that the small club community stuff will go out the window with it.That is a shame and very sad.You only have to listen to the quietness on the terraces to see where we are now.Id say sack the old fuddy duddy board and get a team in that are upto this sort of pressure and who have the minerals to sort the club out.Now some of you might not like this view but are you really happy how it is now.Im not.This is the work of this current board and management who are deaf to our requests and needs.They don't know what they're doing.

Actually pal, the small club mentality is exactly what made watching the Daggers a bit special as was Dashers original point. I can sit at home on pretty much any day of the week and watch a bunch of overpaid primadonnas prance around playing football on the TV not giving a toss about the shirt they are wearing or badge on it, I don't need to go out in the cold and wet to see sub standard journeymen doing the same in League Two in person.

While its nice being a Football League club in that you are one of the 92, with the extra exposure it gives, and the odd glory moments and games against the likes of Southend, Orient, Colchester here and there, you will go a long way to beat days out like we had in the FA Cup as a non-league side in 2001, 2002, 2003. Being non-league and a community club has its benefits and in scrabbling as we are to change things and become another "business" we are in massive danger of becomuing something that has no charm at all, and doesn't actually offer much back to those watching.