The Silence

Discuss all matters related to Dagenham and Redbridge
Daggerthroughmyheart
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:41 pm

Blackie645 wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:01 am 3 Points I agree with, we have no assets and the council would love to build house or flats on our ground, it is prime building land near the station.
There is no consortiums or anyone in the pipeline to invest, why would they want to? Fan base low, no ground, and never ending paying out.
Lets drop down a few leagues and start again. Maybe AFC Dagenham.
The fan base is low because so many brilliant ideas have not been pursued. Look at some of the things that are in this thread. There were 4500 people at the West Ham game, quite a few waiting to be captured. viewtopic.php?p=39793#p39793

This ‘oh what have we got going for us’ why would anyone invest? We are a national league/ former football league club, with a ground and facilities suitable for League one. It would cost an investor far less to get us back into the football league (in theory) than to start from scratch and have us work our way up again. Look how close we are to the playoffs with our scratch team? We are a great acquisition - don’t dumb us down.
Blackie645
Posts: 210
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:29 am

Fair play good points made, not dumbing down anyone, or the club, maybe we do not sell ourselves well, ur right about the crowd from the west ham game, have we got 5% of that crowd back to our games, no we have not, I am just trying to tell the truth, it does not look good fro us,
NickMurphy
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:37 pm

Daggerthroughmyheart wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:11 am
Blackie645 wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:01 am 3 Points I agree with, we have no assets and the council would love to build house or flats on our ground, it is prime building land near the station.
There is no consortiums or anyone in the pipeline to invest, why would they want to? Fan base low, no ground, and never ending paying out.
Lets drop down a few leagues and start again. Maybe AFC Dagenham.
The fan base is low because so many brilliant ideas have not been pursued. Look at some of the things that are in this thread. There were 4500 people at the West Ham game, quite a few waiting to be captured. viewtopic.php?p=39793#p39793

This ‘oh what have we got going for us’ why would anyone invest? We are a national league/ former football league club, with a ground and facilities suitable for League one. It would cost an investor far less to get us back into the football league (in theory) than to start from scratch and have us work our way up again. Look how close we are to the playoffs with our scratch team? We are a great acquisition - don’t dumb us down.
The fanbase is low because people local to the area by and large don't care and to be frank, we're a fifth-tier football team. If we were top of the league and spanking teams every week we might entice a few extra fans a long. I properly started supporting the club off the back of the season we went up from the Conference the first time round. You don't entice new people by losing at home to Boreham Wood, Guiseley et al. If we were in the Championship we'd be averaging 3k+ on a weekly basis.

As for the investor point - unless you're a local boy made good or have some kind of connection to a football club, I have no idea why you'd want to invest in a football club. Everyone knows it's a money pit. One at this level especially so.

RE the ground point - as I understand it Victoria Road has a lease that ensures it can only be used as a sports ground, no? Does this cease to be the case if we go into liquidation as it's tied to the club, or is this a standalone lease? (I have no idea how these things work, so apologies if that comes across as a silly question).
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ARNU
Posts: 3746
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:43 pm

As we walked across pond field park to the game yesterday a bloke and a small boy were having a kick about. The ball came to me and I passed it back to the kid and said" you'd probably get a game in there today" and pointed to the ground. The boys father said " what's that ground then?" Now he sounded local but didn't know that it was even a football ground so obviously I told him and said the kid would get in for nothing and he'd probably pay £15 for himself. He just dismissed it as " not proper football though is it mate ?"

There lies a problem.
Bollix to Shampoo, it's real poo we want !
Alan
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:34 pm

Depends on the covenant on the use of the land - if it’s just a clause in the lease between us and the landlord, they can do what they like if they take the land back.

If it’s a covenant in the freehold, it’s much more complicated and gets into arguments about whether it’s a positive or restrictive covenant, for whose benefit it is etc - I kissed goodbye to land law over 20 years ago, so don’t know the detailed answers, but it’s not straightforward. The gardens in Leicester Square are there because of a restrictive covenant- I remember that from my land law at university!
Alan
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:34 pm

ARNU wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:14 pm As we walked across pond field park to the game yesterday a bloke and a small boy were having a kick about. The ball came to me and I passed it back to the kid and said" you'd probably get a game in there today" and pointed to the ground. The boys father said " what's that ground then?" Now he sounded local but didn't know that it was even a football ground so obviously I told him and said the kid would get in for nothing and he'd probably pay £15 for himself. He just dismissed it as " not proper football though is it mate ?"

There lies a problem.
It is. For all the talk of being a community club, the local community are not at all engaged with the club. I’ve taken along people who have season tickets at premier league clubs and they’ve all been impressed by the standard of players and play generally as being much better than they expected.
Fearless
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:02 pm

I have been a supporter of local football at grass roots level for over 50 years and have run junior football clubs. I have really enjoyed watching the daggers for many years after my own local club Rainham Town went under. It is a shame that the daggers are in this position now but it is not impossible to get out of it.
Unfortunately we are in the real world and we are competing against clubs that have bigger fan bases with wealthy investors. It looks doubtful that such a backer will surface for us in the near future.
To compete in this league nowadays we need a full time squad with all the expense and travelling that goes with it. I know that there are exceptions to this (Sutton etc.) but if you look at our fan base numbers our income there are numerous clubs ahead of us (especially the northern teams).
I do not know enough about the daggers board and the politics that come with the running of the club but it seems that a voluntary relegation to maybe Bostick premier or north could invigorate the club at a part time level. If we can keep our core supporters and even encourage new blood we could compete at a good level with one of the biggest support in that league.
It's surely better than limping along in the National League trying to punch above our weight.
Who wants to be Billericay anyway.?
SUSSEX DAGGER
Posts: 2619
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:47 am

Well if the Club is leased to us surely that is an asset ?

Like my flat that has a lease on it and would be classed as a asset if i ever got into financial difficulties, so the new 30 year lease
must be worth something

My original point about no new investor is what went on down at Portsmouth. The New Club had to settle only all Footbsll debts fully the other creditors were offered something like 10p in the pound. That was accepted and the new Club is flying high.

So if these People who we are told showed an interest and walked away, would they rekindle any interest if the price was just outstanding foorball debts and 10p in the pound for any other ?
Adrian
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:09 pm

SUSSEX DAGGER wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:16 pm Well if the Club is leased to us surely that is an asset ?

Like my flat that has a lease on it and would be classed as a asset if i ever got into financial difficulties, so the new 30 year lease
must be worth something

My original point about no new investor is what went on down at Portsmouth. The New Club had to settle only all Footbsll debts fully the other creditors were offered something like 10p in the pound. That was accepted and the new Club is flying high.

So if these People who we are told showed an interest and walked away, would they rekindle any interest if the price was just outstanding foorball debts and 10p in the pound for any other ?
As a lease is a contract to pay to use something, it's a liability not an asset.
Owning a property leasehold is not the same thing.

We have no assets of any value. The buildings we own are worthless as they're on land that we don't own.

The various fixtures and fittings in bars etc won't be worth much.
SUSSEX DAGGER
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Thank you Adrian , so if the rent for the lease is paid every year and all other covernents met , hopefyully that is a Peppercorn rent , then Dagenham and Redridge Football Club have a right to occupie ?
Alan
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:34 pm

It’s not a peppercorn rent.
SUSSEX DAGGER
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Alan wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:12 pm It’s not a peppercorn rent.
Oh well then that appears to be that then .
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Auntie Merge
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ARNU wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:14 pm As we walked across pond field park to the game yesterday a bloke and a small boy were having a kick about. The ball came to me and I passed it back to the kid and said" you'd probably get a game in there today" and pointed to the ground. The boys father said " what's that ground then?" Now he sounded local but didn't know that it was even a football ground so obviously I told him and said the kid would get in for nothing and he'd probably pay £15 for himself. He just dismissed it as " not proper football though is it mate ?"

There lies a problem.
The problem is that we have no strategic marketing plan. ‘Let’s get more fans’ ‘come and support the daggers’ is meaningless as it doesn’t give anyone a purpose other than the club wants your cash.

Had the club had a proper long term marketing strategy, aside from ‘halls to hire’ or ‘sponsor a match ball’ ‘be a mascot’ then we could be in a very different position today. There is no joined up long term thinking and this is what I had hoped Glyn Hopkin would have brought to us. Had he made some real changes in our infrastructure we would reap long term benefits.

We’ve currently got 1980s marketing in a 2018 society. A strategic plan would incorporate everything official and unofficial from the supporters club to the guys who do the daggers podcast. It isn’t difficult to do.
And it isn’t difficult to keep season ticket holders on side with these plans and promotions either.
It doesn’t cost a lot of money too; it can all be achieved on a shoestring budget. (This is actually something I occasionally lecture at universities on - marketing with no marketing spend). You just need a coherent long term plan and everyone on board. Businesses do it easily; we should do the same. There are huge untapped commercial avenues within the club and the community and potential fan base. I would hope that any investor interested in the club or reading this forum would see that.
NickMurphy
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:37 pm

Auntie Merge wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:11 pm
ARNU wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:14 pm As we walked across pond field park to the game yesterday a bloke and a small boy were having a kick about. The ball came to me and I passed it back to the kid and said" you'd probably get a game in there today" and pointed to the ground. The boys father said " what's that ground then?" Now he sounded local but didn't know that it was even a football ground so obviously I told him and said the kid would get in for nothing and he'd probably pay £15 for himself. He just dismissed it as " not proper football though is it mate ?"

There lies a problem.
The problem is that we have no strategic marketing plan. ‘Let’s get more fans’ ‘come and support the daggers’ is meaningless as it doesn’t give anyone a purpose other than the club wants your cash.

That is very true. It's like the tweets that get put out to come to the clubhouse. Example from this weekend:

"Come down to the Daggers Clubhouse to watch live football this weekend. https://www.daggers.co.uk/news/-L9QhrSi_cAX83LL9RaW …"

1. You've not said why I should come to drink here, no incentive.
2. You've not listed the games.

These things are both mentioned in the link through to the page - but that's the "second phase" as it were. It's not all about page views. Twitter is the best viral marketing tool there is and we consistently under-use it and have done for a number of years.

It might not make any actual difference for a tweet about the clubhouse. But it's basic social media strategy that the club should be adhering to. There are 280 characters to play with to list the game, the ticket prices and whatever else you want, make use of it.

It frustrates me so much because it's such a basic thing and if we offered an enticing salary to someone hungry who wants a first starter job in a role like that I think the content would probably go up x10.

Anyway, I went off on a tangent there. It's not the sole reason - far from it - but it's a contributing factor. And far more so than something like changing the badge or some codswallop like that.
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Auntie Merge
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NickMurphy wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:26 pm
Auntie Merge wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:11 pm
ARNU wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:14 pm As we walked across pond field park to the game yesterday a bloke and a small boy were having a kick about. The ball came to me and I passed it back to the kid and said" you'd probably get a game in there today" and pointed to the ground. The boys father said " what's that ground then?" Now he sounded local but didn't know that it was even a football ground so obviously I told him and said the kid would get in for nothing and he'd probably pay £15 for himself. He just dismissed it as " not proper football though is it mate ?"

There lies a problem.
The problem is that we have no strategic marketing plan. ‘Let’s get more fans’ ‘come and support the daggers’ is meaningless as it doesn’t give anyone a purpose other than the club wants your cash.

That is very true. It's like the tweets that get put out to come to the clubhouse. Example from this weekend:

"Come down to the Daggers Clubhouse to watch live football this weekend. https://www.daggers.co.uk/news/-L9QhrSi_cAX83LL9RaW …"

1. You've not said why I should come to drink here, no incentive.
2. You've not listed the games.

These things are both mentioned in the link through to the page - but that's the "second phase" as it were. It's not all about page views. Twitter is the best viral marketing tool there is and we consistently under-use it and have done for a number of years.

It might not make any actual difference for a tweet about the clubhouse. But it's basic social media strategy that the club should be adhering to. There are 280 characters to play with to list the game, the ticket prices and whatever else you want, make use of it.

It frustrates me so much because it's such a basic thing and if we offered an enticing salary to someone hungry who wants a first starter job in a role like that I think the content would probably go up x10.

Anyway, I went off on a tangent there. It's not the sole reason - far from it - but it's a contributing factor. And far more so than something like changing the badge or some codswallop like that.

You don’t even need to employ someone to do this if the club is being run on a shoestring. It could be a collective voluntary role where someone spends an hour a week writing and scheduling tweets. Also a shared google docs during the week for anything new that comes up. There are lots of reliable fans active on a variety of social media who I am sure would love to participate.

A joined up strategy would also involve asking the all the fan sites and outlets to promote the events too.

I said it before when we were leafleting people coming into the ground about Tamplin. What difference would it make if you handed out leaflets to people coming into the ground for the home game ‘events in the daggers bar this month’? That’s 1000+ people who know already where the club is and support it. It isn’t rocket science to encourage them to use the facilities more often. Even if 50 people started coming into the clubhouse that would make a huge difference. And it should happen every month.
The same mentality should happen as people leave the ground after the game. Offer them a poster advertising the next home game to take with to put up in your local shop, school, office.

You don’t need money or too many people resources to do this; it’s about being a community and making people feel loved, valued, wanted and like they can contribute to the success of the club in even a small way.
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