Views from the Sieve

After a poor start we improved as the game went on.

Second half Murphy has 3 chances, 2 of which were very good chances, and Azeez (who has been useless in both of the last two games) has two great chances also. We did miss Hines, with him and Medy on the wings we would of created more, but we still did enough in terms of creativity, just poor finishing let us down.

Daggers No 2 Fan wrote:

Diggerthedog wrote:

Daggers No 2 Fan wrote:Burnett is a beginning to look as clueless as he did last season.
The subs today made no sense today at all. Putting a centre forward on wide while leaving a winger on the bench. Then gives the winger a few minutes.

For all the calls for Norris to start he didn't do very much other than a few speculative shots. Azeez is useless.
Still don't understand what you want from Murphy. He was denied by an excellent piece of goalkeeping, but again had very little service. He was never going to beat their centre halves in the air, and it isn't his fault he keeps getting balls at head height.

Murphy had very little service? He had a hatrick of chances created in the second half alone should have scored at least one of them. He also miss controlled when in a great position first half. He was poor today, this is based on what we come to expect from him.

3 chances over nearly 90 minutes is little service. There were a few occassions when he was ignored while in a good position while someone else took a speculative shot. That's also little service.
Of the chances he had, one was blocked by excellent goalkeeping, one was a sharp turn where he was a little unlucky to not hit the target.
He certainly doesn't deserve to be picked out over the pile of steaming turd that was Azeez. His effort straight at the keeper under no pressure from a defender was pathetic. His collapse when clean through was shocking.

3 chances for 1 player over 90 minutes is certainly not bad going. If it was 3 chances for the whole team then I would agree. But as it was, the whole team had some good chances yesterday and it was simply poor finishing that let us down, especially in the 2nd half. In the first half, Norris had a cracker from just outside the box that went narrowly over. He then had another well saved by the keeper after Murphy dummied from Elito's good work. Elito himself had a half chance from a Saah long ball that the keeper saved low down. This all from what was an average first half from us. Then in the 2nd half, you had Murphy's hat-trick of chances, Azeez passing at the goalkeeper rather than hitting with any conviction, Dickson also had a real chance in the box where he turned and dragged his shot wide. He also in the last minute of stoppage time produced a good touch and hit what looked like a very effective shot that was blocked.

So I count 9 chances there. 6 of what I'd say are very good opportunities to score (3 for Murphy, 1 for Azeez, 1 for Norris and 1 for Dickson) with 3 half chances (Norris from outside the box, Elito going wide and hitting back across goal and Dickson in the last minute). That should be enough to win you a game of football. There was constant service throughout the game. In fact, this was one of our better games of late where we were providing to the strikers. I thought D'Ath and especially Elito were very good with the ball and allowed Murphy/Norris to be in the game. Plus we had umpteen corners and some half decent balls in the ball.

Daggers No 2 Fan wrote:

leewilson wrote:There is still a John Still element of this team which hopefully can be lost further in the summer with 2-3 more good purchases.

Burnett's had a year to make his mark. Today's team included 6 players he signed, and 8 he didn't (but one of those was Shields who played all of once under Still).
Of the others, for me the worst for going long was Saah. Hoyte doesn't play the ball long. Femi doesn't tend to either. Ogogo and Howell were in midfield so can't really play long. Elito was apparently wasted under Still and would be much better under Burnett.

The reality is that we're trying to play more football but doing it badly because the players (and that's all of them) aren't really good enough to do it.

So you've pretty much said what I said but tried to be pedantic about it. Burnett's team included more players he didn't sign than he did sign. You can't rip everything out and start again in a year. He's kept the foundations of what we had and added his own stamp in and around it. You have to remember that we are Dagenham as well. It's not as if we can just go and rip up everything Still created immediately and then throw a wad of money at signing a completely new set of players. We have to move slowly. When Still came in, his first season was all about consolidating in the Conference. He signed a few new players as well but the team wasn't fully his yet and they did well to finish mid table. He did some more work over the second summer and the team became his and the results reflected that. Burnett needs to try to do the same here. It might not be next season, it might be the 3rd season depending on circumstances where we really start to see a full 'Wayne Burnett' side. For you to suggest that everything should now have his mark on is very poor from you.

For me, providing we stay up (and I think we will comfortably), he's achieved his aim this season whilst introducing some building blocks for the future. The likes of Murphy and Hines are very good additions to this squad. Saah is a good league 2 defender. Obafemi has shown a lot of promise for the future. Jack Connors has been blooded this season and that will only benefit him down the line. Billy Bingham has flourished under the new manager and will be a key player next season. Medy Elito is still inconsistent and I don't think he'll ever change in that respect but we have certainly seen more quality from him this season than we have in previous seasons. If anything, often when games are tight away, he is the one making the 1-2 key chances for our strikers. Watch highlights back and see how often he's the one setting up chances when we play away by carrying the ball 20-30 yards and then playing a good pass through.

And for you to identify players as 'ones who go long' as the only effect of the John Still era, then jeeez, I'm fighting a losing battle. There's a far bigger difference to what Wayne wants to what John wanted. Confidence on the ball, ability to pass in a tight situation. I'll give you an example. We picked the ball up in midfield yesterday, made 4-5 sideway passes at an alright tempo. Ball was then played out to Femi who was closed down quickly and he panicked and chipped it 40 yards down the line to their full back. In that situation, you need a cool head, a CB to pull out behind and create an angle for an inwards pass to retain the ball. We're a makeshift side of some players who naturally pass and look to move into pockets of space (Murphy, Norris, Elito, D'Ath, Bingham, Connors, Hines) and then those who don't have the ability to do that consistently for 90 minutes (Howell, Femi, Doe, Wilkinson, Saah, Ogogo, Hoyte). Big problem there for me is that bar Connors, not many of our defenders are comfortable on the ball. Hoyte has shown spells where he is but for me, Hoyte has the attributes to be twice the players he's shown during his time in a Daggers shirt. He is always a 6/7-10 when he could be an 8/9. When we are playing a back including Femi at left back and then an Ogogo/Howell CM, straight away that's the foundation of our team all not quite in tune with a natural passing game. But at the same time, these players have other attributes needed in a football match to ensure you're not weak defensively. No wonder we've started bypassing a little bit and looking to do our playing in their half rather than in ours. With what Wayne wants to do, you can get away with 2-3 players perhaps not quite finding the style natural but not half your side. In the long run, we want to be looking at:

Lewington

RB - Doe - CB - Connors

Ogogo - Bingham

Hines - AM - Elito

Murphy

I would happily have Ogogo and Doe remain in our team because they signify the ethos of our club. However, we need a bit of patching up in the defensive areas and definitely another CM comfortable on the ball. I'd take D'Ath on a full time deal if he becomes available. We also need a few more squad members to be more comfortable on the ball as well so when the inevitable injuries/suspensions hit, we're not bringing in those who are going to disrupt our flow. All slow building blocks which can't be achieved in just 1 year.

leewilson wrote:
Lewington

RB - Doe - CB - Connors

Ogogo - Bingham

Hines - AM - Elito

Murphy

I would happily have Ogogo and Doe remain in our team because they signify the ethos of our club. However, we need a bit of patching up in the defensive areas and definitely another CM comfortable on the ball. I'd take D'Ath on a full time deal if he becomes available. We also need a few more squad members to be more comfortable on the ball as well so when the inevitable injuries/suspensions hit, we're not bringing in those who are going to disrupt our flow. All slow building blocks which can't be achieved in just 1 year.

I think Saunders will be that other CM, comfortable on the ball like you said. Hopefully he can get his injuries out of the way.

Still think Hoyte and Saah are good enough for our team.

matt_drfc wrote:

leewilson wrote:
Lewington

RB - Doe - CB - Connors

Ogogo - Bingham

Hines - AM - Elito

Murphy

I would happily have Ogogo and Doe remain in our team because they signify the ethos of our club. However, we need a bit of patching up in the defensive areas and definitely another CM comfortable on the ball. I'd take D'Ath on a full time deal if he becomes available. We also need a few more squad members to be more comfortable on the ball as well so when the inevitable injuries/suspensions hit, we're not bringing in those who are going to disrupt our flow. All slow building blocks which can't be achieved in just 1 year.

I think Saunders will be that other CM, comfortable on the ball like you said. Hopefully he can get his injuries out of the way.

Still think Hoyte and Saah are good enough for our team.

I think Hoyte and Saah are both ok. Saah is solid enough for this division. People do forget that he was part of the partnership with Doe that hardly saw us concede at home before Christmas. Hoyte like I said is a 6-7/10 but I think he could be so much more with his raw pace and ability to put a very good ball in the box. I think he plays within himself far too often.

leewilson wrote:

Daggers No 2 Fan wrote:

leewilson wrote:There is still a John Still element of this team which hopefully can be lost further in the summer with 2-3 more good purchases.

Burnett's had a year to make his mark. Today's team included 6 players he signed, and 8 he didn't (but one of those was Shields who played all of once under Still).
Of the others, for me the worst for going long was Saah. Hoyte doesn't play the ball long. Femi doesn't tend to either. Ogogo and Howell were in midfield so can't really play long. Elito was apparently wasted under Still and would be much better under Burnett.

The reality is that we're trying to play more football but doing it badly because the players (and that's all of them) aren't really good enough to do it.

So you've pretty much said what I said but tried to be pedantic about it. Burnett's team included more players he didn't sign than he did sign. You can't rip everything out and start again in a year. He's kept the foundations of what we had and added his own stamp in and around it. You have to remember that we are Dagenham as well. It's not as if we can just go and rip up everything Still created immediately and then throw a wad of money at signing a completely new set of players. We have to move slowly. When Still came in, his first season was all about consolidating in the Conference. He signed a few new players as well but the team wasn't fully his yet and they did well to finish mid table. He did some more work over the second summer and the team became his and the results reflected that. Burnett needs to try to do the same here. It might not be next season, it might be the 3rd season depending on circumstances where we really start to see a full 'Wayne Burnett' side. For you to suggest that everything should now have his mark on is very poor from you.

For me, providing we stay up (and I think we will comfortably), he's achieved his aim this season whilst introducing some building blocks for the future. The likes of Murphy and Hines are very good additions to this squad. Saah is a good league 2 defender. Obafemi has shown a lot of promise for the future. Jack Connors has been blooded this season and that will only benefit him down the line. Billy Bingham has flourished under the new manager and will be a key player next season. Medy Elito is still inconsistent and I don't think he'll ever change in that respect but we have certainly seen more quality from him this season than we have in previous seasons. If anything, often when games are tight away, he is the one making the 1-2 key chances for our strikers. Watch highlights back and see how often he's the one setting up chances when we play away by carrying the ball 20-30 yards and then playing a good pass through.

And for you to identify players as 'ones who go long' as the only effect of the John Still era, then jeeez, I'm fighting a losing battle. There's a far bigger difference to what Wayne wants to what John wanted. Confidence on the ball, ability to pass in a tight situation. I'll give you an example. We picked the ball up in midfield yesterday, made 4-5 sideway passes at an alright tempo. Ball was then played out to Femi who was closed down quickly and he panicked and chipped it 40 yards down the line to their full back. In that situation, you need a cool head, a CB to pull out behind and create an angle for an inwards pass to retain the ball. We're a makeshift side of some players who naturally pass and look to move into pockets of space (Murphy, Norris, Elito, D'Ath, Bingham, Connors, Hines) and then those who don't have the ability to do that consistently for 90 minutes (Howell, Femi, Doe, Wilkinson, Saah, Ogogo, Hoyte). Big problem there for me is that bar Connors, not many of our defenders are comfortable on the ball. Hoyte has shown spells where he is but for me, Hoyte has the attributes to be twice the players he's shown during his time in a Daggers shirt. He is always a 6/7-10 when he could be an 8/9. When we are playing a back including Femi at left back and then an Ogogo/Howell CM, straight away that's the foundation of our team all not quite in tune with a natural passing game. But at the same time, these players have other attributes needed in a football match to ensure you're not weak defensively. No wonder we've started bypassing a little bit and looking to do our playing in their half rather than in ours. With what Wayne wants to do, you can get away with 2-3 players perhaps not quite finding the style natural but not half your side. In the long run, we want to be looking at:

Lewington

RB - Doe - CB - Connors

Ogogo - Bingham

Hines - AM - Elito

Murphy

I would happily have Ogogo and Doe remain in our team because they signify the ethos of our club. However, we need a bit of patching up in the defensive areas and definitely another CM comfortable on the ball. I'd take D'Ath on a full time deal if he becomes available. We also need a few more squad members to be more comfortable on the ball as well so when the inevitable injuries/suspensions hit, we're not bringing in those who are going to disrupt our flow. All slow building blocks which can't be achieved in just 1 year.

Wow, that's quite a rant you've gone on there, considering that I apparently agreed with you.
I think the use of this 'John Still element' as a defence is a pathetic excuse. It isn't poor form, it's my opinion. And to be honest I doubt Burnett would appreciate it either.
He has had plenty of time to make his mark, he's been able to bring in players, but then one of the problems is that he keeps signing the same sort of player - how many wide forwards do we really need. The weird thing is that if anything he seems to be moving away from his supposed philosophy of playing the ball around more. John Still most definitely made his mark on the team in that first season, and it looks like he's done the same at Luton as well.

I've said it before - the whole being comfortable on the ball thing is a massive crock of shit. It doesn't matter if you play the ball around, or play it long. What matters is doing it well and doing it quickly.

Daggers No 2 Fan wrote:
Wow, that's quite a rant you've gone on there, considering that I apparently agreed with you.
I think the use of this 'John Still element' as a defence is a pathetic excuse. It isn't poor form, it's my opinion. And to be honest I doubt Burnett would appreciate it either.
He has had plenty of time to make his mark, he's been able to bring in players, but then one of the problems is that he keeps signing the same sort of player - how many wide forwards do we really need. The weird thing is that if anything he seems to be moving away from his supposed philosophy of playing the ball around more. John Still most definitely made his mark on the team in that first season, and it looks like he's done the same at Luton as well.

I've said it before - the whole being comfortable on the ball thing is a massive crock of shit. It doesn't matter if you play the ball around, or play it long. What matters is doing it well and doing it quickly.

Can't see us ever agreeing. How can you possibly say being comfortable on the ball is a crock of shit and then say that what matters is passing it well and doing it quickly. You have to be comfortable on the ball to be able to do that. To have that natural instinct and confidence to approach the ball quickly and control. To have the vision as you're approaching the ball to see a pass early or to know what areas you should be passing the ball into in relation to where you are on the pitch. If football was as easy as you make out, we'd all be playing it at this level.

Still made his mark in his first season but it didn't translate into consistency. Have a read of this and it sounds very similar to what we're going through at the moment: http://www.fansfocus.net/dagenhamandred ... id=8324402. We are rebuilding. It takes longer than a year. There will be high points as seen prior to Christmas and there will be lower points as we're experiencing currently with a loss of form with the manager trying to work out how to rectify it (which he will do, I'm sure).

Oh Adrian it's great having you back!